Hastings Supporters Forum - 100% Unofficial!

I hope it gose ahead as iv worked on the main stand there's alot of work that needs done. So for me bring on the new stadium as be easier to maintain then the main stand we have. Yes people don't like change but I'm well up for it we can't put enough money in to the youngsters this is because of the maintenance costs

You scored a lot of runs down there Tim!

Trouble is the Hastings United relocation story has been going on 10 times longer than brexit, and we still don’t know the outcome to either.

Compared to the cost of a new stadium, restoration would be significantly less? I’m curious generally why an old football stand doesn’t have the same value as an old house/building when it comes to preservation. Great Yarmouth’s stand is th eonly one I can think of.

We’ve even got that rotting old Stamco ground that wouldn’t take a lot of imagination to convert into some decent training facilities.

Am I being completely naive? I don’t even understand why this should be such a prime site for housing over any proposed site for a new ground. I am probably naive & overly nostalgic. The problem might just be there aren’t enough people in Hastings who care about the football club, for it take up space in any kind of reasonable distance from the main town. I’m sure if it wasn’t for Dulwich’s revival of interest, they never would have been successful in their return to Champion Hill today.

Hold up nothing is don't there are you having a laugh why don't you come up on Saturday and actually help out with the situation. As that's what me and dave are doing on are own!! It just gets me when people say this and that ain't done things are done up there maybe what you don't see. No one sits around doing nothing going I was up there early on match days cleaning all the seats sweeping the stand and that. Yes it shouldn't be down to me but I do it because I love this club!!

ChrisVanRock wrote:

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.... , damn we could do with a foolish millionaire

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 We've been down that road ....don't even go there  ....... MG5YP !!!! 

-- Edited by Windy on Saturday 27th of October 2018 01:48:02 PM

Hastings is one of the country's lumpier towns, and finding a bit of flat land is tough! It's not like Eastbourne which has all sorts of swamps and drains to build on... ;)

As I understand it Cliff, the council own the freehold of Pilot Field but the club has a long secure lease. It is that lease which is the club's valuable asset. In return for surrender of the lease the freeholder (the council) could dispose of Pilot Field for housing. Pilot Field is seen (I think rationally) as much more desirable for housing development than Tile Kiln. I assume that the council own Tile Kiln as it is presently a recreation gound. So I presume the quid pro quo is that the club surrender the lease on PF and get a new lease on a developed ground at TK. 

In saying that it is only my own assumption. I am not privy to anything here other than what is in the public domain - largely through what people much more knowledgeable than me have put on this forum over the years (decades it feels) - but I also believe that the club has no financial interest whatsoever in the Firs and that the council have absolute control (subject to planning constraints) about whatever might be planned for that site. Most happy for those who know better - and surely those individuals are out there - to put me right.

A significant problem for the club (again very well ventilated in the archives of this forum) is that at some point with the chaotic events of decades ago the club lost the original lease it had with the council which obligated the council to maintain and repair the Pilot Field. The present lease puts that obligation on the club. Hence the club face a real and pressing need to re-locate. They cannot expect to maintain let alone up-grade Pilot Field out of present or anticipated future income. As Windy points out, earlier in this thread, a billionaire white knight is not only unlikely but - from past experience - of dubious value.

So, we await developments. I wish the directors well; they bear a heavy responsibility. Realistically we have to move. The really crucial thing is that the future of the club must be secured for future generations. Whatever arrangements the club enters into - and I don't begrudge a fair profit for those with the expertise to put these deals together - the club must emerge without crippling debt or some crazy lease which will hamstring its future. 

I've bored people on this forum before by saying that local clubs I have previously supported have got into severe difficulties through ground sales, re-development plans and financial error through over optimism. (Those who are interested might like to see the history of Guildford City, Wimbledon, and Kingstonian). The pain remains - I've long gone beyond even thinking about attribution of fault - but please I don't want the last club I shall support to endure another financial crisis!

 

 

-- Edited by GeoffM on Monday 29th of October 2018 08:32:28 PM

Spot on Geoff

As the old saying ‘be careful for what you wish for ‘

I hope it works , but it rips the heart of the club for me ... but Hastings are moving upwards especially with this team that have changed so quickly ... a growing monster of a club ... a new facilities type ground is required for that as long as it is substantially viable

Sad though , the modern game and grounds disalusion me

We have a long term lease on the PF so the council cannot “dump” us.

Let’s move go to a ground, with conference facilities, and try and move up the pyramid. The PF stand is worn out

I think Cliff, regading the council, that we have to rely on them acting in good faith. From the council's perspective, they will not wish to be seen to be acting in a hostile way towards the club and they will want to be able to show that they are investing in community and sports facilities which the Tile Kiln development will also provide. Councillors are wary of elections!
In the past there seemed to be a distinct coolness in the relationship between the club and the council (despite the personal support of the late greatly respected Jeremy Birch). Hopefully, the present owners of the club have been able to move on and build an effective working relationship with the council. Success of the proposed development is absolutely dependent on that.
But while all parties have a mutual interest, you are right to remind that the interests of the club, the council and the developers are not identical.
If money gets tight and costs over shoot, then it is the party in the weakest position who is the most vulnerable.....!

www.hastingsobserver.co.uk/news/new-hastings-football-stadium-plans-for-tilekiln-recreation-ground-supported-by-council-leaders-1-8695290 looking very positive

I won’t be too chuffed if we relocate, as my last will and testament has provision for my ashes to be buried behind The Elphinstone Road end goal. Don’t fancy my last resting place being in somebody’s back garden with a washing line on my head,
or under their driveway. I rather thought it would be at my spiritual home. That said, as a betting man, I would kinda hope that the main stand crumbles and capitulates before I do, in which case, I’d have to change my will anyway. As much as I love the PF, we need a modern stadium for this modern age, it’s just a shame we can’t redevelop the PF into a 21st century stadium. We all know that this won’t happen. So we have to move to progress.

Does anyone know if the capacity could be increased should the need ever arise? i.e. fill in the corners! 1,950 could easily sell out regularly should we ever reach the Conference.

The points John and Harry make are important. 1,950 is a very low capacity indeed. We need a decent new stadium to fulfill the potential we all recognise. If we don't get it now we will lose that opportunity for a generation or more. I am concerned that our interests as supporters might be squeezed between the developer's (completely understandable) desire to make a profit and not be exposed to risk and the council's desire not to expend money.
Of course the club will rightly be concerned about commercial confidentiality while the plans for the development are fluid. However, those who currently own the club are its custodians for the future. So, I urge them to be as transparent as they can possibly be with us the supporters, about not just the ground plans but the financial arrangements they are contemplating.
I'm sure I don't just speak for myself when I say that we stand ready to assist - by lobbying our local councillors most obviously - to make sure that we get this right for the future of both the club and, more generally, of sport in our town.

Does feel strange that the new stadium will only be 1950 capacity. Not sure how big Pilot Field is but think a lot bigger than that. Not very ambitious. I think this is what bookworm refers to , dont know how to do a link.
hastings.moderngov.co.uk/documents/g3064/Printed%20minutes%2005th-Nov-2018%2018.00%20Cabinet.pdf?T=1
strange that when money is so tight for the council and services are being cut and council tax is on the rise that the council would be willing to accept a price for the Pilot Field below best value if I have read it correct? If the scheme does go ahead as a tax payer and a football fan i'd want the best value.

Come on let’s get real 1950 is more than enough we last got that for Harrogate, all of us know we are not likely to get to fa cup 1st round ( the earliest stage 2000 will be required) on a regular basis. It clearly says there is room for expansion. So please stop going on about a non issue.

On this matter I disagree with Chris and Steve. Many of us will have visited 'Homelands' the home of Ashford United. That has a stated ground capacity of 3,200 (500 seated). I would regard that as the absolute minimum capacity for our new home. Do we really wish to readily aquiesce to move to something with less than two thirds the capacity of that pretty spartan stadium? An example of a stadium with around 1,950 capacity is Crowborough FC's community stadium. (Its capacity is 2,000.) That is absolutely fine for County League football and it functions well as a community hub for other sports. But surely that is not the summit of our ambition - to have a modern ground to good County League standards?
Yes, I have no doubt that there will be facility to expand at Tile Kiln. It would be bizarre indeed if it were otherwise. But expansion requires money. Over the years we have seen the extreme difficulty of funding any kind of development from income alone. That is why we need to get the very best possible deal now from the surrender of our lease on Pilot Field. This is an opportunity (and a challenge) which will not come again in a generation.
I repeat what I have said earlier. Other parties - the developers, the Council, Sport England, etc - will have their own utterly legitimate and proper priorities but those are not necessarily the same as those who want to see senior football in our town reach the highest level it can. We need to make sure our interest does not get subordinated.

Chris, while we might not get there in my lifetime, I hope we can agree that the club should realistically look in time to reach what is presently the National League (Conference). I would hope when we do we will get regular gates in the eight or nine hundreds. I'm sorry, but a ground capacity of 1900 is not more than adequate for that, let alone for the 1500 to which we might reasonably aspire.
A non-league ground is not at all like an all seater stadium (which is designed to potentially operate to capacity). At non-league level, fans expect to walk around, get a cup of tea, change ends, go and find a seat in the stands if it pours down with rain and above all get a decent view from standing terraces without being in a sardine crush. You need a considerable margin of over capacity to achieve that in comfort.
Pilot Field currently has a capacity of over 4,000 with 800 seats. Yes, we can go smaller; but I will be very disappointed indeed if we end up with less than 500 seats. With decent terracing that automatically takes the capacity up to at least 3,000. Every single club in the National League, I believe, exceeds that figure by a considerable margin.
I do not want or expect some behemoth of a ground - of course you are right that huge under attended grounds are truly dismal - but surely we should argue to get something closer to The Dripping Pan (which has plenty of atmosphere with a 600 or so gate) than Crowborough's Community Stadium?

-- Edited by GeoffM on Saturday 10th of November 2018 04:20:07 PM

It seems that the capacity issues have aroused debate but just as important are the sequencing issues in the project and the risks around this
Are we all confident that there is a clear understanding on the risks around these
Surely that is where the debate should focus
The project involves the quick sale of the Sports and Social club and its development got housing, seemingly in advance of the main project
May be ben3ficial for a question and answer session to clarify some points
If we want a bigger venue for this, we should perhaps consider a room at the Crowborough FC for a one off event