He didnt play for Eastbourne mate as he was up the Pilot Field watching the U21 match. If he does play for them it would be to gain fitness only as he won't have kicked a ball for 5 months. he's seems fully focused on hopefully playing for us again once fit and with some matches under his belt
He was due to play for the 21's last night but Maggs wanted to look at a couple of potential first team players that were over age, which brought the number of over age players to 3 so he couldn't play.
So is razor coming back or is it true he in talks with Cray and kingstonian?? Need him back as Kelly got 3 match suspension
This is what Barrie says in the topic Matt Darby:
From what Razor told me yesterday he's going to Cray or Kingstonian so it should be Jono or maybe another centre half will be brought in. I'm sure that John will have it covered.
Something has to have happened behind the scenes. Spoke to Sean a few weeks back and he was very keen on getting back playing and trying to force his way back in to the first team. Cant see how playing Ryman premier is going to help after a long lay off and why would a local, family man like Sean, and at his age, want to travel London to play week in week out. Just maybe, the dismissal of Irish has changed things. I hope so.
John Maggs stated in last nights programme that he was going to play Sean Ray in next weeks League Cup match and would also discuss the position as cover for Kelly's suspension.
As terry said in interview on observer there is other options than razor does anyone know who this other cb may be what Terry says will be a very good signing
Receiving DVD's from Pat and Cliff of last years famous Cup run, I can't see Sean Ray in a different shirt then ours.
His family is '' Hastings '' and seeing all the celebrations, interviews, pitch invaders with a great role from Sean in it, it is a pity that - so it seems - he in not involved anymore. He is such a long time already with this club. I can't imagine nobody on this forum had talks with him about this situation.
A rather embarrassed quote from the manager in the Match Programme. Having said that he was waiting for Sean to ring him, he now says that Sean "will be moving on from Hastings" . And then, " I know that this may be seen as a strange move". Yes Maggs; A great number of us will find it more than strange, especially as Sean has confirmed very recently that he had told you that he was willing to play as a sub & to fight for a place in the team, but that your response was to say that he was not required. Is this another case of a manager who says one thing but does another?
A rather embarrassed quote from the manager in the Match Programme. Having said that he was waiting for Sean to ring him, he now says that Sean "will be moving on from Hastings" . And then, " I know that this may be seen as a strange move". Yes Maggs; A great number of us will find it more than strange, especially as Sean has confirmed very recently that he had told you that he was willing to play as a sub & to fight for a place in the team, but that your response was to say that he was not required. Is this another case of a manager who says one thing but does another?
Unless Josh Hare is staying for longer than the agreed months loan or we have someone else lined up it seems crazy to me. As I said on another thread, if Ben Judge breaks down, and lets remember he is 37 in May, then we have no cover. Seems to be a clash of egos/personalities rather than a sensible football decision in my opinion. I know Barry reported a few weeks back that Sean looked slow and unfit playing over at Eastbourne but surely a fit Sean, if he can regain it after the op, has to be a better option than some of those on the bench on Saturday.
Unless Josh Hare is staying for longer than the agreed months loan or we have someone else lined up it seems crazy to me. As I said on another thread, if Ben Judge breaks down, and lets remember he is 37 in May, then we have no cover. Seems to be a clash of egos/personalities rather than a sensible football decision in my opinion. I know Barry reported a few weeks back that Sean looked slow and unfit playing over at Eastbourne but surely a fit Sean, if he can regain it after the op, has to be a better option than some of those on the bench on Saturday.
John,
what i don't understand is that Sean has been at the club for so long that really no-one has a clue what is going on?
A lot of you are very long supporter of Hastings and know the guy. Seems to me that the contact between supporters and staff and players are more intense at our club that a much bigger club ?
I know Sean, I have spoke to him before and I really like the bloke. We are not mates so I have no special allegiance to him over the club. I would just rather have him at the club than not. I do take on Chris's point of Maggsy not wanting any baggage or conflict from an ex manager but at the same time I just find it hard to believe that Sean would be willing to commit to the club only to cause disruption. Many comments have been made on the forum regarding the effort and attitude of certain players last season but I never saw that with Sean on the pitch. Last away game at East Thurrock, when we were relegated, all the players trudged off without much care but I remember Sean standing in the middle for 5 minutes on his own clearly hurting. His discipline was not always great and some did not rate him as a manager (not me)but don't know how anyone can question his commitment on the pitch. People will obviously disagree with me but if Den's comments are correct, and Sean did make those comments then it is a real shame. Just always feel sad to see local players such as Sean, Ade, Jack, Zac amongst others, to walk away from their local club whilst we continue to bring in a lot of average loan players in amongst very few good ones.
I know Sean, I have spoke to him before and I really like the bloke. We are not mates so I have no special allegiance to him over the club. I would just rather have him at the club than not. I do take on Chris's point of Maggsy not wanting any baggage or conflict from an ex manager but at the same time I just find it hard to believe that Sean would be willing to commit to the club only to cause disruption. Many comments have been made on the forum regarding the effort and attitude of certain players last season but I never saw that with Sean on the pitch. Last away game at East Thurrock, when we were relegated, all the players trudged off without much care but I remember Sean standing in the middle for 5 minutes on his own clearly hurting. His discipline was not always great and some did not rate him as a manager (not me)but don't know how anyone can question his commitment on the pitch. People will obviously disagree with me but if Den's comments are correct, and Sean did make those comments then it is a real shame. Just always feel sad to see local players such as Sean, Ade, Jack, Zac amongst others, to walk away from their local club whilst we continue to bring in a lot of average loan players in amongst very few good ones.
Thanks and i agree 100 % that is such a pity that our local ( heroes ) players do not play at our club. I think that clearly a choice has to be make by the club ( staff, board,management, SUPPORTERS etc ) what direction we want to go in the future.
Is this being a local club with local players and accept that the level is not too high
No, we want the best players and often a passenger as a manager ( John Maggs ?? ) and play at the highest level possible
Or a combination of the 2 above.
I know it is not easy to choose but the situation of Sean Ray ( and i am a '' outsider'' ) feels not good. I think it is very disrespectful for a player/manager who gave so much for this club.
BertNEC is correct in saying that Sean should have been treated with respect. When someone who has given an organisation great service leaves, it is normal to at least express ones thanks. Maggs says that HIS decision would be seen as a "strange move". Personally I think that the future may show it to have been a stupid mistake.
In any other league if a team is relegated then the manager is shown the door, is he not?
No one can deny that under Sean's leadership the highlight of last season was, in my mind, Middlesborough.Financially the FA cup is beneficial to any club but, the bread and butter of any club is the league.
Maybe I speak out of turn here.....I am loving the way hastings are playing now, not just because they are doing
Superbly in the league. Under Sean, The team were afraid to shoot from outside the area and we had one of the worst disciplinary records in the non league pyramid. Look at us now.......
I dare say that some of you will disagree with my points. But the facts are we currently playing better football now than we were under Sean. Ok we are in a different league, but if had played like this I think we would have been in the Ryman Premier still.
In any other league if a team is relegated then the manager is shown the door, is he not? No one can deny that under Sean's leadership the highlight of last season was, in my mind, Middlesborough.Financially the FA cup is beneficial to any club but, the bread and butter of any club is the league.
Maybe I speak out of turn here.....I am loving the way hastings are playing now, not just because they are doing Superbly in the league. Under Sean, The team were afraid to shoot from outside the area and we had one of the worst disciplinary records in the non league pyramid. Look at us now.......
I dare say that some of you will disagree with my points. But the facts are we currently playing better football now than we were under Sean. Ok we are in a different league, but if had played like this I think we would have been in the Ryman Premier still.
I cannot agree or disagree with the things you said because i did not see the team play last season. And what you are saying is mainly based on technical and tactical aspects of the game. Sean ( Hastings ) is relegated and that is a fact.
My point is that he has also played for the club and his family did also and you may say that Hastings is his club. Why not give him a chance to come back as a player because what i have read he was one of our best. Doesn't he deserve that ?
Because he is '' Hastings '' and Maggs is clearly not yet and seems to be a manager for maybe 2 Years.
I sort of understanding where you are coming from with your reply. As you say my observations were based the technical aspects of the game, not against Sean himself. Hastings are playing well at the moment So I fail to see where Sean would fit in now. The club has moved on without him.
I am more than happy with our current form, under "Maggs".
Sean maybe "Hastings" but Hastings isn't Sean any more.
Chris B has a serious problem with Sean for some unknown reason I wonder if he has actually told him to his face what his problem is I'm guessing not its pathetic behind the computer vendetta!!!!
Is he your role model then? Sean caused a lot of problems if you cant see that then you are beyond help, i don't have a problem with him, i have a problem with him and Hastings United.
If you cant understand what i mean, then you ought not to be allowed out alone, in simple English, i don't have any problem with Sean and wish him all the best in his football career at any other club. What i have an issue with is him having anything to do with Hastings United, there are too many issues from his time at the club that can simply be patched over. If you want me to list them i will, but i see no point in going over old ground.
U have a big issue with Sean Chris B pathetic really and for me he has been a role model how he went into schools to teach football and the effort and commitment he has given to the club!!
I sort of understanding where you are coming from with your reply. As you say my observations were based the technical aspects of the game, not against Sean himself. Hastings are playing well at the moment So I fail to see where Sean would fit in now. The club has moved on without him.
I am more than happy with our current form, under "Maggs".
Sean maybe "Hastings" but Hastings isn't Sean any more.
Rob
Thanks Rob and understand your reasons. The main thing what i am trying to say is which direction is going Hastings to?
If we look at the team which is relegated and the team now playing is a huge difference. Imagine at the end we are champions what kind of effect will this have on the team. Again 11 or more new players. The '' problem '' could be that the supporters can't identify themselves anymore because all the players are '' passengers '' and have no bond with our club.
I fully understand what you are saying and, like anything, it is down to personal choice. I am more than happy for players to be "passengers" at Hastings, all the time our form is like it is. Relegation last season was a bitter pill to swallow and yes, The team this year is far removed from last years, but, without past players, we are second in the table.
Bert it really is opposite we have more local players now and supporters will 'bond' with players more if they are playing well and playing there hearts out. that is happening now even when we go behind in games i still think we will win. we only had that last year in fa cup and never in league and sorry but sean ray was manager and he had to take responsibility for the lack of heart spririt that saw us get relegated. he may have care but it was his job to get his players to care and perform. he didnt.
as a player sean was great but as a manager his record is poor. as to coming back and playing i think it would be an awful mistake and i think Maggs and his experience knows that and i think it best for hufc and sean if for now they go seperate way. the last thing we need if we are to get promoted is any baggage from last year relegation
Sean Ray certainly seems to be "marmite" for most of the supporters. You either love him or hate him.
Firstly with regards to the discipline that Sean kept throughout the side last season I think sometimes it is slightly exaggerated. Take out the 4 red cards at Hendon and the very often, slightly crazy Tom Vickers, and it wasn't as bad as people make out.
Discipline at Hastings from beginning of season to October 20th 2012 and 2013.
Under Sean Ray/Mark Stapley 2012 19 Yellow cards (15 games)
Under John Maggs/Terry White 2013 19 Yellow cards 2 Red (18 games) plus a 22 man brawl!
On top of those figures Hastings managed 19 games out of 61 last season with no bookings at all, this season just 4, not that these statistics really mean anything and can be misleading. The counter argument will be that the discipline fell apart after Xmas, but can a quite ridiculous 13 games in April be blamed for that? maybe not, but certainly that is when the wheels fell off.
But to level things out Sean did receive 3 reds and 5 yellows in 33 appearances which he would not be happy with.
There were also many rumors of unrest in the changing room and lack of discipline and respect towards the manager. Perhaps so or maybe just rumors. If we are going on rumors I have been told of fighting between 2 players this season in the changing room and fall outs between Stapley and the management. Has much really changed from last season?
And F1 states that he loves the way Hastings are playing now. Really! I have not missed a game this season and apart form 20 minute spells in each game and a very good performance at Walton I think we have been average for a lot of the season. Is anyone else loving the way we play? No doubt at all that John has installed some real fight in the team and they never give up but we have been very fortunate this season in many games and I think John and DW know that.
I have 100% faith in John Maggs and I think it is a very good appointment. I am delighted with our league position and FA Trophy run and very proud of what the players have achieved so far. I do not believe we are playing well consistently, only in patches, and I am certainly not "loving the way Hastings are playing at the moment" as someone has stated. We have been very fortunate on numerous occasions and been very lucky with injuries as our squad still looks very thin. I am disappointed to see Sean leave as a player and think he could have been a major asset to the playing staff but a decision has been made and I respect John's decision and we should now let it drop. Just don't think everything is quite as black and white as some people have made out on this thread. Was he the best manager we have ever had? no, far from it. Will a manager ever take us to the 3rd round of the FA Cup? probably not, so that makes him special whatever people think of him and has he ever given less than 100% as a player for Hastings, never in my opinion.
John the fighting between players i heard off was when Sean was in charge, has there been another? Eastbourne United was the one i heard off. But like you said all is done and dusted now so lets move on.
Very decent reply Chris, thought I would be heading for the Samaritans queue just behind Windy, Razor, Kenny and Zac Attwood To be fair Chris I think it was under Terry and Stapes tenure and it was 2 players that are still there now but again only rumors so could be a load of old bull!
Bert it really is opposite we have more local players now and supporters will 'bond' with players more if they are playing well and playing there hearts out. that is happening now even when we go behind in games i still think we will win. we only had that last year in fa cup and never in league and sorry but sean ray was manager and he had to take responsibility for the lack of heart spririt that saw us get relegated. he may have care but it was his job to get his players to care and perform. he didnt. as a player sean was great but as a manager his record is poor. as to coming back and playing i think it would be an awful mistake and i think Maggs and his experience knows that and i think it best for hufc and sean if for now they go seperate way. the last thing we need if we are to get promoted is any baggage from last year relegation
Ok Peter, i think the first 2 lines are very important and true. The reason of maybe his return as a player i.m.o. purely based on his records, skills as a player and his contribution ( and his family) to this club . So you think otherwise and i respect that.
Sean Ray certainly seems to be "marmite" for most of the supporters. You either love him or hate him.
Firstly with regards to the discipline that Sean kept throughout the side last season I think sometimes it is slightly exaggerated. Take out the 4 red cards at Hendon and the very often, slightly crazy Tom Vickers, and it wasn't as bad as people make out.
Discipline at Hastings from beginning of season to October 20th 2012 and 2013.
Under Sean Ray/Mark Stapley 2012 19 Yellow cards (15 games)
Under John Maggs/Terry White 2013 19 Yellow cards 2 Red (18 games) plus a 22 man brawl!
On top of those figures Hastings managed 19 games out of 61 last season with no bookings at all, this season just 4, not that these statistics really mean anything and can be misleading. The counter argument will be that the discipline fell apart after Xmas, but can a quite ridiculous 13 games in April be blamed for that? maybe not, but certainly that is when the wheels fell off.
But to level things out Sean did receive 3 reds and 5 yellows in 33 appearances which he would not be happy with.
There were also many rumors of unrest in the changing room and lack of discipline and respect towards the manager. Perhaps so or maybe just rumors. If we are going on rumors I have been told of fighting between 2 players this season in the changing room and fall outs between Stapley and the management. Has much really changed from last season?
And F1 states that he loves the way Hastings are playing now. Really! I have not missed a game this season and apart form 20 minute spells in each game and a very good performance at Walton I think we have been average for a lot of the season. Is anyone else loving the way we play? No doubt at all that John has installed some real fight in the team and they never give up but we have been very fortunate this season in many games and I think John and DW know that.
I have 100% faith in John Maggs and I think it is a very good appointment. I am delighted with our league position and FA Trophy run and very proud of what the players have achieved so far. I do not believe we are playing well consistently, only in patches, and I am certainly not "loving the way Hastings are playing at the moment" as someone has stated. We have been very fortunate on numerous occasions and been very lucky with injuries as our squad still looks very thin. I am disappointed to see Sean leave as a player and think he could have been a major asset to the playing staff but a decision has been made and I respect John's decision and we should now let it drop. Just don't think everything is quite as black and white as some people have made out on this thread. Was he the best manager we have ever had? no, far from it. Will a manager ever take us to the 3rd round of the FA Cup? probably not, so that makes him special whatever people think of him and has he ever given less than 100% as a player for Hastings, never in my opinion.
John, first sentence: i do not think in love or hate for a manager but how his results are/were.....Also i do not think so about a player....... What i think is how fits a player in the team, how fits he with the club because then there will be a bond between player/manager and the club which can only be positive i.m.o.
My main point is your last sentence: gave Sean lever less then 100% as a Hastings player. No and with his background i stated already it seems harsh to give him no second chance as a player because already mentioned: when we get injuries and/or suspensions the squad is not very large
Sean Ray certainly seems to be "marmite" for most of the supporters. You either love him or hate him.
Firstly with regards to the discipline that Sean kept throughout the side last season I think sometimes it is slightly exaggerated. Take out the 4 red cards at Hendon and the very often, slightly crazy Tom Vickers, and it wasn't as bad as people make out.
Discipline at Hastings from beginning of season to October 20th 2012 and 2013.
Under Sean Ray/Mark Stapley 2012 19 Yellow cards (15 games)
Under John Maggs/Terry White 2013 19 Yellow cards 2 Red (18 games) plus a 22 man brawl!
On top of those figures Hastings managed 19 games out of 61 last season with no bookings at all, this season just 4, not that these statistics really mean anything and can be misleading. The counter argument will be that the discipline fell apart after Xmas, but can a quite ridiculous 13 games in April be blamed for that? maybe not, but certainly that is when the wheels fell off.
But to level things out Sean did receive 3 reds and 5 yellows in 33 appearances which he would not be happy with.
There were also many rumors of unrest in the changing room and lack of discipline and respect towards the manager. Perhaps so or maybe just rumors. If we are going on rumors I have been told of fighting between 2 players this season in the changing room and fall outs between Stapley and the management. Has much really changed from last season?
And F1 states that he loves the way Hastings are playing now. Really! I have not missed a game this season and apart form 20 minute spells in each game and a very good performance at Walton I think we have been average for a lot of the season. Is anyone else loving the way we play? No doubt at all that John has installed some real fight in the team and they never give up but we have been very fortunate this season in many games and I think John and DW know that.
I have 100% faith in John Maggs and I think it is a very good appointment. I am delighted with our league position and FA Trophy run and very proud of what the players have achieved so far. I do not believe we are playing well consistently, only in patches, and I am certainly not "loving the way Hastings are playing at the moment" as someone has stated. We have been very fortunate on numerous occasions and been very lucky with injuries as our squad still looks very thin. I am disappointed to see Sean leave as a player and think he could have been a major asset to the playing staff but a decision has been made and I respect John's decision and we should now let it drop. Just don't think everything is quite as black and white as some people have made out on this thread. Was he the best manager we have ever had? no, far from it. Will a manager ever take us to the 3rd round of the FA Cup? probably not, so that makes him special whatever people think of him and has he ever given less than 100% as a player for Hastings, never in my opinion.
John.
Whilst I can not agree with all your views, I do respect you taking the time to post the above. I am enjoying the way Hastings are playing currently, granted there is room for improvement. I do think your 20 minutes comment is a little harsh, but we are all entitled to an opinion. Our season will be judged on results, as it was last year.
Been reading this thread for the last week and have deliberately not commented on it but has anyone ever thought tha this may not be all one way traffic coming from John Maggs? All I'm saying is there's always two sides to a story.
Been reading this thread for the last week and have deliberately not commented on it but has anyone ever thought tha this may not be all one way traffic coming from John Maggs? All I'm saying is there's always two sides to a story.
Barrie, can you tell us the other end of the story ?
No I can't Bert, it's my opinions only. There is always two sides to a story, I think people are forgetting that and that maybe Sean doesn't have the dying passion that he has shown over many years of service for the club? So many people are saying get Sean back in etc etc but has anyone actually thought that with the Ben and Irish partnership being the best in the league that Sean isn't prepared to be cover? After all if its not broke don't fix it! Maybe Sean has better options, maybe Sean wants to still play whilst he can and doesn't want to sit on the bench, after all he's in the twilight years of his career now and if we're all honest he would still be one of the best centre halves in this league.
It's just what I think and not something Sean has said to me. A lot of people are saying get. Sean back in and sign Sean up etc etc, just think of the bigger picture, its not always as clear cut as it sounds so just give that a thought.
One might think it seems strange that a top Ryman Premier side like Kingstonian would snap-up Sean when a fairly average Ryman South side would say that he was no longer wanted! Come to think of it; isn't that exactly what Maggs himself said (ie "it may seem a strange decision") in the Match Program? I wonder what he meant, or was he being leant-on from above, or was he too weak to clarify the situation behind the decision?
Sean had been talking to Kingstonian for a while as well as Crays. I think he was in two minds of who to play for, he's more than capable of playing in that league and I wish him well. Hopefully we can now put this to bed and move on.
Den I think you need to look at in in other ways and not just footballing ability, it's a team game and the best 11 players don't always make the best team, balances can be upset, and spirit can dented. Let's move on he isn't coming back this season.
Lenny, I re-read your previous post, but with the greatest respect it still seems to me to be lacking in any factual statements, & seems based largely on conjecture & speculation. (eg three maybe's). Are you really saying that Sean no longer wishes to play for the club? if so, then this is contrary to information from a trusted individual whom, like myself, has supported Hastings in its various forms since the early 1950's, & who said that Sean had confirmed to him that he wanted to play as a sub if necessary & was prepared to fight for his place.
Also as you know, Sean was at the U21 Eastbourne match & ready to play, but Maggs went back on his earlier stated intention to play Sean, with the poor excuse that he wanted to see other over age players.
As you say, "there is also two sides to a story" but if you are also implying that you know what the other side of this story is, then perhaps you should consider being more forthright.
I spoke to Sean a week ago Saturday, I was reluctant to say or confirm anything on here because things, quite frankly, do get blown out of proportion, sometimes innocently sometimes not so, however he said that he wasn't going to play for the club again. As much as I respect what was said to the individual who spoke to Sean, I honestly believe he's lost the passion for the club and giving all that has happened over the last few months (including the U21 situation) I think it would test anyone's loyalties. We're all aware that he has given many years service to the club in all different manners and from what I took from our conversation it was a simple case of he just wanted to move on. He mentioned to me a while back that he'd had talks with Kingstonian and Cray and had been made offers, he reiterated that just over that a week ago, so I'm not surprised that he was playing for Kingstonian last night.
I think we will all agree that he is more than capable of playing at that level even if it's just for another season or two.
It was always going to be difficult for Sean to return playing for us for so many different reasons which have been discussed on here but I wish him well for the future and hope everything goes well for him there.
Agree with ChrisB and best players dont make best team and can not see how a former manager could fit in under the guy that replaced him just more hassle than it worth and think Maggs realised that. Pretty much think the same with Ade that sometimes some player are just too disruptive when there is baggage so to speak,
Thanks for that Lenny. I accept that your information is more recent, & that obviously Sean has recently become disenchanted with HUFC &, as you say, given the way that he has been treated that is perhaps not surprising.
Personally I am disappointed that we have thrown away a player of his quality, and I don't accept unsubstantiated comments from others such as "disruptive" & "baggage" which unless quantified have little or no real meaning. Like you, I wish Sean all the best for the future (even if he does end up playing for Kingstonian against us next year!!
Thanks for that Lenny. I accept that your information is more recent, & that obviously Sean has recently become disenchanted with HUFC &, as you say, given the way that he has been treated that is perhaps not surprising.
Personally I am disappointed that we have thrown away a player of his quality, and I don't accept unsubstantiated comments from others such as "disruptive" & "baggage" which unless quantified have little or no real meaning. Like you, I wish Sean all the best for the future (even if he does end up playing for Kingstonian against us next year!!
) feels not good. I think it is very disrespectful for a player/manager who gave so much for this club.
To be fair Chris I think it was under Terry and Stapes tenure and it was 2 players that are still there now but again only rumors so could be a load of old bull!