Hastings Supporters Forum - 100% Unofficial!

Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
Hastings United Supporters Club → Hastings United Fans Forum → Hastings Supporters Forum → Supporters funding players
 

Topic: Supporters funding players

Post Info
johnw
Guru
Status: Offline
Posts: 1885
Date:
Supporters funding players
Permalink  
 

From the main site.

 

The end of any season naturally provides an ideal chance to reflect on what might have been and, despite getting to the play-offs this term, and pushing Folkestone Invicta all the way in last week's semi-final, it seems unlikely that anyone would consider the U's 2013/14 campaign to have been a good one.

Although the playing budget was set at its highest level for more than a decade, it was impossible to escape an ultimate feeling of underachievement, which everyone at the Club is determined to rectify next season, if at all possible.

A substantial loss, likely to be at least £25,000, would not typically be sustainable, of course, but the decision has already been taken to significantly increase the budget yet further in a bid to enhance the chances of success next year. At the same time, it is hoped that income can be increased one way or another to try and minimise the greater loss that will otherwise inevitably be made during 2014/15.

To that end, the Club would like to appeal to supporters for help in funding the budget generally, or perhaps for specific players. As an example, one particular summer transfer target has a wealth of experience at a much higher level of the pyramid and, while initial conversations have been promising, it will be very difficult to meet his wage requirements. If enough supporters could contribute a minimum of £5.00 per week each though, it would give United every chance of pulling off what would undoubtedly be a major signing.

It would be perfectly feasible for such an arrangement to be organised via the Supporters' Club, with the funds raised going directly to the player, rather than being paid to the Club in the first instance. This type of scheme has worked successfully at other clubs and it is felt that this could make a real difference to the U's promotion ambitions. The aim is to put together a really strong squad ahead of the new season, but with some extra financial assistance, this could look really exciting indeed.

Anyone interested in contributing should please contact Pat McCrossan by emailing patfooty@hotmail.com for further details.

 

I actually think this is a really good idea although I expect many supporters to be anti and i'm sure the old comments and accusations will raise their heads again. 'I'm not lining DW pockets', 'where has the FA Cup money gone' etc etc, although I think the write up makes things crystal clear. I think the club will struggle to get any funding from the u21s and I guess a lot of the more senior members are still angry over the prices they pay for admission to the Pilot Field, so probably count them out, so I am guessing it may come down to the 'somewhere in-betweens'. I for one will be speaking to the supporters team on Thursday and hope to be one of the first to make a contribution.

The only point I will make is that much has been made of comments on the forum made towards players and staff. Once a club puts something like this in place, and supporters are paying players wages, supporters then have every right to be outspoken and negative if they feel the need. One minute the forum is being taken off the main site, the next we are being asked for our help. Like I said, a really good idea, a real positive move and I will be helping, but at the back of my head the phrase 'you reap what you sow' comes to mind. 

 



__________________
Overthehill
Senior Member
Status: Offline
Posts: 201
Date:
RE: Supporters funding players
Permalink  
 
I think Johnw has hit a few nails on the head. There's no doubt that the club should be praised for its' ambition and desire to build a squad capable of going up. That said, it seems to me that this idea is fraught with danger. Firstly, if this is a marquee signing, and he's that good, why does he want to play at such a poor level? Secondly, if he's a striker and scores 30 goals, happy days. If not, and he loses form and the manager decides to drop him, what about the supporters who are paying his wages? What if he gets injured? Thirdly, it would appear that this idea will appeal most to those loyal people who are already funding the club via season tickets, and match-day add ons - these will probably also include those working voluntarily at the club already. I just wonder how deep their pockets are? I can't see many outside of this magnificently loyal bunch coughing up. Fourthly, it appeared that the club had intentions to progress only within its' means and has continually championed its healthy financial position. A significant loss in a poor season requires some clarification for even smaller potential investors. Was it purely down to lower than anticipated gate money? From a personal point of view, I would be more than willing to help, but I'd need some answers to some key questions before I did so. Finally, what's gone is gone, but the fact that the budget last year was the highest for 10 years makes 2013/2014 an even worse scenario, and not one that is particularly encouraging when supporters are being asked for financial help. A big financial loss in a dreadful league - should that be allowed to happen? I really hope it works, I'd be willing to contribute but I do have reservations.

__________________
General
Senior Member
Status: Offline
Posts: 153
Date:
RE: Supporters funding players
Permalink  
 
I agree overthehill, I already buy two season tickets a year and am a member of the 200 club which has a ring-fenced wages budget contribution in it. I'm not anti the idea but would like to see greater financial transparency from the club in terms of what the losses were last season, what loss they are expecting this season and how much of the FA cup money is left before I would want to commit much more, as I constantly tell my children, its not a bottomless pit!

Maybe its time to look at the under 21s again, perhaps reducing it to under 18s. Perhaps 18-21s could make a contribution or get a free pass if they become 200 club members. Like I said before, anything that increases revenue to afford better players which might lead to better results and gates is worth considering.

__________________
General
Senior Member
Status: Offline
Posts: 153
Date:
RE: Supporters funding players
Permalink  
 
Been thinking about this idea some more this afternoon. Ideas like this have proven successful elsewhere so are worth looking at perhaps. John and overthehill raise some interesting points however. Ideas like this are particularly popular at community owned clubs I believe. The current structure at Hastings United is that it's a limited company with directors and shareholders, so a business, even if not like many others. I'm not saying this is necessarily a bad thing.

If your local mini-supermarket approached you and said we want to employ a few more staff at weekends to improve your "customer experience" do you fancy chipping in? You'd probably tell them to do one (unless you're mad) or unless they were offering you shares or something. Although football is a very different business and has much more emotion and loyalty involved the principles are the same.

If this fundraising idea could be tied into the transfer of some shares held in trust by the supporters club and with that meaningful board level representation, I would be much more enthusiastic about it. It would lead to greater financial transparency and give supporters a greater understanding of what running the club involves and an idea of some of the costs that most of us probably don't even think about. I think many would welcome that.

As for a supporters board rep. I'd propose John W.

__________________
glenn10
Member
Status: Offline
Posts: 17
Date:
RE: Supporters funding players
Permalink  
 
If the option of putting in £x thousand for x% stake in the club was put forward, I've got some money I found down the back of the sofa which I'd be willing to invest... In fact I did ask about buying shares in the club last year in a letter, but didn't get a response to that part of my letter, so it was either read over or they're not available...

But paying for a player, not for me I'm afraid, sorry gentlemen!

__________________
dave a
Veteran Member
Status: Offline
Posts: 82
Date:
RE: Supporters funding players
Permalink  
 
agree with general ,would want some answers first, would want to know age and what is the higher level he has played at not to much to ask before putting in iknow its old hat now but still believe dropping the age to 18 would generate some more income if 21s really do support the club they will pay.

__________________
daveandrews
Lenny The Lion
Guru
Status: Offline
Posts: 1735
Date:
RE: Supporters funding players
Permalink  
 
"Pay a player" isn't a new thing, it was tried a couple of seasons ago when Sean Ray was with us but for one reason or another it didn't take off with just one supporter kindly helping out. As it's been said it's been very successful at other clubs and if it's worked so why not try it again?

Now I'm not in anyway saying this is official by any means but I am aware of a number of costs that the club has accrued over the last season albeit without exact figures, in which, as I've stated many times before I am not privy to expenses or costs.
The chairman has openly said before that as of the end of last season we are now paying an extra £4000 a year for rates, that is over and above the cost of rent. The electricity alone can be over £500 some months and even in closed season is only slightly lower and I hasten to add slightly. Not included is Gas and Water and of course Insurance of which I do not know what that comes too.
John Maggs was the most expensive Manager we have had,again I don't know how much he cost but going by alleged rumours I've heard he received from over clubs it seems he's one of the most expensive managers in non league football and quite possibly that was the case when he was with us, that is a sum of money that showed no return. The Players budget was the most we have paid in 10 years, a gamble that didn't pay off but both the Maggs and player investment showed the commitment that the board wanted promotion.
The U21 and U18 squads run at a loss, I know that officials fees for all 3 squads are not cheap especially when the takings on the gates for the supporting squads rarely if hardly ever cover the costs of the officials let alone the other running costs around the ground that go into staging a fixture.
We are all aware of the age of the ground and when you look at the ground compared to other grounds we have visited this season, I think its fair to say that our ground is one of the best, safest and most welcoming in the league, this was evident when we had the ground grading a few months ago. We had very little work to do to get the ground up to Conference south standard, yes we had a cost involved but that shows how our ground is compared to the likes of Peacehaven and Three Bridges etc etc. Simon and the volunteers work extremely hard to keep it in that condition however with its age there is always something to be done and paid for, for example we currently have an issue with a badger set that is going to run well into four figures to deal with. I'm sorry to say that there is a lot that goes on that people just do not realise. Without trying to sound rude or belittle anyone,unless you're involved you just do not realise how much it costs. I know I didn't until I got involved with the club. We all know that our pitch is one of the best if not the best in non league football and I can say that its a privilege to help out on it and again that sort of playing surface does not come without a cost.
Asking where the loss has come from is in my opinion clear to see but as I've said I help out and can see first hand where some of it goes and believe me it's not cheap.
All I will say is because we've made a loss this season lets just take a look at the bigger picture re running costs.
The board has agreed to increase the budget again next season to achieve promotion, if you can possibly help reignite pay a player I'm sure your donation however big or small will be greatly received.


__________________
General
Senior Member
Status: Offline
Posts: 153
Date:
RE: Supporters funding players
Permalink  
 
Thanks for that post Lenny, very interesting and helpful in explaining some of the hidden costs. Most of us had probably thought of some of the costs but probably not expensive badgers!

The statement on the official site asks for a minimum of £5 per week. For those that can't stretch to £260 per year on top of what they already spend, I'd advocate the 200 club as half of the 60% not given out in prizes is ring-fenced for the playing budget. I'm sure we all want to see players of as high a quality here that we can realistically afford.

__________________
MrLiamWillis
Admin
Status: Offline
Posts: 1779
Date:
RE: Supporters funding players
Permalink  
 
Think it's actually £190 as it's only required over 38 weeks of the year

__________________
Lenny The Lion
Guru
Status: Offline
Posts: 1735
Date:
RE: Supporters funding players
Permalink  
 
I must admit I don't know very much about the 200 club and I am guilty of not joining it despite good intentions to do exactly that. I will definitely make an effort to do so. In my personel opinion it would be great if people who maybe couldn't afford to donate to "pay a player" joined the 200 club, that way if a significant number joined it would help boost the playing budget in another way and have a chance to win a few quid themselves too. I'm certain that fund raising will be high on the agenda for the supporters club next season after what I think can best be described as a disappointing year. There are lots of good people who are interested in helping the supporters club raise funds next season.

__________________
FatherXmas
Guru
Status: Offline
Posts: 700
Date:
RE: Supporters funding players
Permalink  
 
I agree with most of the comments on this thread. No one has to contribute to this scheme and there will be lots of ways to help the club in the coming season.Please attend the Supporters Club AGM on the 15th of May and help us elect the committee and officials and also come with fundraising ideas for discussion. Starts at 8 pm. Non members can attend but can't vote.

__________________

Steve Thorpe
philg
Guru
Status: Offline
Posts: 1741
Date:
RE: Supporters funding players
Permalink  
 
Can I ask a question. If a supporter pays £5 to the supporters club and that money is passed direct to the player then who is responsible for the PAYE (tax and national insurance. ). Is it the Supporters club, the main Club or the Player? Just curious

__________________
Lenny The Lion
Guru
Status: Offline
Posts: 1735
Date:
Supporters funding players
Permalink  
 

I'm not sure Phil but I will try and find out. I would think that it would be either the club or the player, I can't see The SC having to pay that. 



__________________
ChrisB
Guru
Status: Offline
Posts: 1437
Date:
RE: Supporters funding players
Permalink  
 
I know by writing this it will cause anger to some of you, but I know some of you will be wondering the same things as myself. Please don't reply by saying its Chrisb being negative again or having a go at the chairman again. Try and respond to my points in a sensible way justifying your point.

This fund for players request.

a) if the chairman can say we are losing £25k a year, and we are going to spend more next season how long can we sustain these losses 2 more seasons max. Then what happens please think about this.
b) the chairman wants fans to pay for a player, this suggests to me he is unable to raise sufficient finances to bring in the quality of player required either by sponsorship, fund raising or increased attendances.
c) by telling fans that are critical of him to go and support someone else, this will lead to probably a few fans like myself and others I know, not to come to home games. For this I would like to thank all those of you who contribute for paying what myself and others would have given in gate money.
d) why was our wage bill so high with the quality we saw on the pitch, we must have been paying over the going rate, or not getting value for money whose fault was this? Not just Maggs.


On another point but still to do with finances does anyone really think directors saying what was said in the programme, then in the paper and also on this site will attract sponsors, because the message it sends out is one of unhappiness at the club on the playing and supporting side.


__________________
xRimsayx
Moderator
Status: Offline
Posts: 215
Date:
RE: Supporters funding players
Permalink  
 
I'm saying this in a nice way Chris so please don't take this the wrong way- but the only person you should be asking these questions to and the only way will you get the honest and right answers is talk to Dave Walters him self - asking other people will only answer you with opinions and possible further arguments, negativity etc, this does go to everyone else who comes on here, the facebook and twitter pages etc and say 'Walters Out' 'this clubs a joke' 'we're not going anywhere' 'why did this happen' and so on - if people want the answers then ask the person who knows the answers, a debate and opinions are good for 'match predictions' 'who should we sign and who should go' etc but when answers are needed it's not really that hard to email/phone/talk face to face to whoever you need to and ASK them yourselves ! Like i say Chris, this isn't aimed at just yourself but everyone , if you don't ask, you don't get ! My nice post of the day done :)

__________________

HUFC Offical Facebook Page Creator

Forum Moderator  
FatherXmas
Guru
Status: Offline
Posts: 700
Date:
RE: Supporters funding players
Permalink  
 
Well said Dave.

__________________

Steve Thorpe
Chris
Veteran Member
Status: Offline
Posts: 32
Date:
RE: Supporters funding players
Permalink  
 

Blimey Master Rimmer well put what a grown up post!!!!!!!   Totally agree ask Dave Walters direct.



__________________
Pat
Guru
Status: Offline
Posts: 513
Date:
RE: Supporters funding players
Permalink  
 
Thanks to those who have offered to support this so far. If anyone is interested please email me at the address on the top post of this thread.

__________________

Gooaaaalllllllll

 
BTW
Newbie
Status: Offline
Posts: 1
Date:
Supporters funding players
Permalink  
 

I can't see how sustainable it is to set up a fund to pay a player.

Buying a player this way regardless of form, fitting in the system or attitude, the manager is put in a situation to have to play this player or they are wasting the fans hard earned money.

I am all for bringing in finances into the club but I find this way of fund raising extremely hard to support



-- Edited by BTW on Monday 12th of May 2014 08:46:33 AM

__________________
MrLiamWillis
Admin
Status: Offline
Posts: 1779
Date:
RE: Supporters funding players
Permalink  
 
That's your choice to make BTW, everyone has to choose their own preferred way of helping the club if they want to as best they can.

However quite a few have now committed to £5 a week ( or more infact! ) including several on here. Wealdstone did it very succesfully in the past with both Richard Jolly and Jermaine Beckford i gather, so it definatly can and has worked well elsewhere and there is decent support for it.

Not everyone can or prefers to do this type of and thats fine and of course there are things that will need sorting but we hopefully all want the very best locally based players ( especially players who have played lots of league games in the recent past ) we can attract playing here and surely the club has to be commended for looking at every option to bring them in even if it may not be something can people individually can do & there are of course issues to be resolved and but hopefully people will get behind the club in other ways ( not always financial as a group started flying for matches down town on Sat mornings for example ) aside from just paying to watch a match.

Hopefully some areas can be clarified at the SC AGM on Thursday, which hopefully as many people as poss on here will attend. We need as many peoples contribution as we can.

Aside from this it is very obviously going to be important for the club to step up fundraising events etc ( quiz's, music nights, etc ) to get the best possible financial base to help offset any potential losses next season. It is extremely important that we do our best next season to get out of this league and up to where we should be ( I don't mean stopping at the Ryman Premier either )

Andy Thomas's Elvis night at the clubhouse raised a lot of money and showed exactly what can be done even without any type of direct financial contribution.

__________________
ChrisB
Guru
Status: Offline
Posts: 1437
Date:
RE: Supporters funding players
Permalink  
 
Just to let you know email was sent as advised.

__________________
johnw
Guru
Status: Offline
Posts: 1885
Date:
RE: Supporters funding players
Permalink  
 

The Club would like to take the opportunity to thank those supporters who have generously responded to the recent appeal for financial support, in an effort to boost the playing budget, and to offset a percentage of the trading loss that is anticipated as a consequence of building a squad fit for a concerted promotion challenge.

Unfortunately, the amount of regular donations pledged thus far has not proved sufficient to enable the U's to land the major transfer target mentioned in the original press release. The additional funds have been put to excellent use though, as evidenced by the calibre of players already committing themselves to United, and anybody else who may be able to contribute is urged to please contact the Club as soon as possible.

 

Little bit disappointed with the wording of this and the original request for funding support. I along with a couple of other supporters were thinking that the monthly donation of £20 would be going to a individual, top quality, player as was done at Wealdstone. There was even talk of meeting the player after the game, half time photos etc. Now this has fallen through we are being told the additional funds are now being used for all players. I understood, from talking with the people that count, that these calibre of players, as mentioned in the report, were coming anyway. Not so sure I am happy to donate to all signings but more than happy to do so to an individual, major target. What do others think of this?



__________________
MrLiamWillis
Admin
Status: Offline
Posts: 1779
Date:
RE: Supporters funding players
Permalink  
 
To be fair john one of the main concerns that was raised at the SC meeting & Q&A was that quite a few fans were concerned that raising the money for a individual was fraught with its own risks, I.E if the player was dropped to the bench etc or could add pressure on Terry to play him etc so it was clarified in the meeting ( and in the write up i did ) that if that player did that or wasn't signed the money would transfer across to strengthen the overall budget.

To put it into context however Wealdstones fans raised enough to pay for Jolleys ( substancial even back then ) wages completely each week but unfortunately to date our scheme just hasn't got anywhere near that figure or even enough to date to make the extra stretch for the player originally targeted.

Unfortunately it sounds like our fans have been split with some happy to contribute generally and some only for a specific player which has obviously diluted the overall effect.

I'm sure something will be put out soon to clarify the situation.



__________________
GeoffM
Guru
Status: Offline
Posts: 633
Date:
RE: Supporters funding players
Permalink  
 
Dan, yes, I am with those who would prefer to make a general contribution, rather than one for an individual player. My reasons for that include those mentioned in your summary. Also, I would want to avoid anything which might cause tensions within the team. It might well cause ill feeling among players if one player had 'special funding'. That said, I don't want to be dogmatic and I hope that something can be put together which allows those who want to make some financial assistance to do so in a way which causes no administrative difficulty for the club or the supporters club.

__________________
Pat
Guru
Status: Offline
Posts: 513
Date:
RE: Supporters funding players
Permalink  
 
Can I just drop in here that supporters who do not wish to do the pay a player could consider sponsoring a players kit for just £70 a season. You get a free signed photo of the player and photo opportunities throughout the season. Just putting another option there. Contact me on patfooty@hotmail.com for either .

__________________

Gooaaaalllllllll

 
xRimsayx
Moderator
Status: Offline
Posts: 215
Date:
RE: Supporters funding players
Permalink  
 
Can i sponser Frankie , Pat ?!

__________________

HUFC Offical Facebook Page Creator

Forum Moderator  
Pat
Guru
Status: Offline
Posts: 513
Date:
RE: Supporters funding players
Permalink  
 
Of course Dave!

__________________

Gooaaaalllllllll

 
xRimsayx
Moderator
Status: Offline
Posts: 215
Date:
RE: Supporters funding players
Permalink  
 
Yayyyyy :)

__________________

HUFC Offical Facebook Page Creator

Forum Moderator  
johnw
Guru
Status: Offline
Posts: 1885
Date:
RE: Supporters funding players
Permalink  
 

Don't hold your breathe Pat, he can't even pay his £2 subs on a Thursday night.no

 



__________________
 
Page 1 of 1  sorted by
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.
 


Create your own FREE Forum
Report Abuse 		Powered by ActiveBoard